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 Infernal Contraption

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Josh Raichel
Cody
Dan Curhan
donsun
Jeff L
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Jeff L
Minister of Silly Walks
Minister of Silly Walks
Jeff L


People Skills : 6546
Registration date : 2009-03-14
Age : 34
Location : Miami, FL / Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 20, 2009 11:20 pm

Coming soon...

Just finished the first rough sketches. 12 lb, can be up-armored to 15 lbs. Right now I'm working out the details of a modular weapon tray, but initially I aim to use a cam-assisted 4-bar [as was used in X-Contamination]. The other possible weapons I could cram in the same spot are a vertical disk, a horizontal disk, or potentially a crusher.
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Jeff L
Minister of Silly Walks
Minister of Silly Walks
Jeff L


People Skills : 6546
Registration date : 2009-03-14
Age : 34
Location : Miami, FL / Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Update 5/19/2009   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeTue May 19, 2009 11:10 pm

After doing some work on the initial design I've shifted over to a less ambitious design: an 'asymmetric' drum 'bot. I think I've also found a clever way to include a vacuum into the design in an extremely compact package (to counter the insane gyro a robot with a 22k RPM weapon will have) by driving it directly off of the weapon motor.

What I've got done is the drum design itself (two variants, one took a while longer to balance out in Inventor) made of 100% steel. Right now they weigh around 4.37 lbs (both are solid steel with tool steel teeth), but adjusting that up or down will be easy now that the main balancing work is done. The especially fun thing about that is if I'm right and I can match a large-diameter drum's moment of inertia (like Fluffy or Executer) the energy stored in the drum will be comparable to that of a weapon on current-generation 120 lb drum robots Twisted Evil.

What I'm going to work on next is chassis design. My goals there are to make something capable of taking a hit from a weapon of equal or greater capacity. Right now I'm thinking a very low design with shock-mounted exterior titanium plates.

More to come later.
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donsun




People Skills : 5505
Registration date : 2009-04-30
Age : 33
Location : Ridgewood, NJ / Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeWed May 20, 2009 1:02 am

sounds good, but for a 12 design, i would warn you that 4.37 lbs isnt' going to give you much weight for the frame. perhaps you should make one of the variants lighter so it can be switched accordingly for weightclasses. but then again, if you go without wheelguards and simple frame design on the 12, then i suppose it's possible to have such a heavy wep.

also, i think i read somewhere on the forums that you're at GATech right now, and I was wondering how shop access and machine access were since I'm headed there this fall.

well looking forward to pics and other details.

-Donald
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Jeff L
Minister of Silly Walks
Minister of Silly Walks
Jeff L


People Skills : 6546
Registration date : 2009-03-14
Age : 34
Location : Miami, FL / Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeWed May 20, 2009 1:15 am

I've thought a bit about that too, and I'm trying to make it so the difference between the 15 & the 12 versions are the exterior armor type. What I'm working on is a way to swap out shock mounted shaped plates on the 15 for lightweight [CHEAP!] ablative blocks (I'm thinking either aluminum or magnesium) on the 12.
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donsun




People Skills : 5505
Registration date : 2009-04-30
Age : 33
Location : Ridgewood, NJ / Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeWed May 20, 2009 8:10 am

yeah, changing exterior armor should allow you to add on a decent amount of weight. but unless you have significantly thinner exterior armor on the 12lb version you'll still need to make an alternate weapon. from what I've seen on my first version of Torrent, i swapped out a pocketed 1/4" Al back to a 1/2" solid steel back and it only added about 1.5lbs at most. also i still think that you'll end up making a lighter weapon because there really is no need to have such a heavy weapon. most of the top ranked bots in the 12lb class feature weapon around 3lbs or maybe 3.5 at most. also, what kind of shock mounts do you plan on using, because I used some on my second version of torrent, but I wasn't able to tell the difference between using and not using shock mounts.
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Jeff L
Minister of Silly Walks
Minister of Silly Walks
Jeff L


People Skills : 6546
Registration date : 2009-03-14
Age : 34
Location : Miami, FL / Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Update 5/23/2009   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeSat May 23, 2009 11:33 pm

After a bit more work, I've decided against the original shock-mounted armor idea and have instead opted for a crush-proof chassis. It'll need fewer parts to work, so that should help a lot with reliability.

I've also determined the angle for exterior armor that best deflects hits from drums/vert-spinners with a 3" diameter all the way to a 10" diameter.

Additionally, after further consideration I have decided to change the planned drum diameter to 6", and the material is now aluminum. I'll have to check what thicknesses will be necessary to prevent a structural failure, but I'm confident I'll figure something out. If worst comes to worst, I'll have to switch to a steel or titanium drum with holes in it (think the evil child of Copperhead and Fluffy). On top of that, I'm going to try to manage balancing the drum with rods of heavier metals inserted at certain points in the drum wall. I'm thinking either copper or tungsten (leaning toward tungsten).

I've also thought up a different way to have an in-drum motor - or possibly several - with no chance of drive failure. I'll post that up in a bit.

The last thing I've got is I'm doing away with the vacuum, at least for now. If I have weight I'll add it back in later.

EDIT: My tungsten rod plan is going to work! Why, do you ask? They're used as Arc Welding Equipment!
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donsun




People Skills : 5505
Registration date : 2009-04-30
Age : 33
Location : Ridgewood, NJ / Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeSun May 24, 2009 10:32 am

crush-proof chassis? perfect angle? sounds good, looking forward to seeing how it looks, maybe i'll steal some ideas Twisted Evil
looking forward to a cad pic =]
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http://www.enigmarobotics.com
Jeff L
Minister of Silly Walks
Minister of Silly Walks
Jeff L


People Skills : 6546
Registration date : 2009-03-14
Age : 34
Location : Miami, FL / Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeSun May 24, 2009 5:20 pm

It'll be a while yet before I have a CAD model up of the whole thing, but I've got a few parts done already (the part of the chassis the armor will be mounted to, for example). The main thing I have to do before I have that done is get dimensions for electronics & motors (which I have yet to pick out).
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Jeff L
Minister of Silly Walks
Minister of Silly Walks
Jeff L


People Skills : 6546
Registration date : 2009-03-14
Age : 34
Location : Miami, FL / Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeSun May 24, 2009 5:27 pm

Here's a picture of the CAD for the original drum with geometry inside to balance the single tooth:
Infernal Contraption Drum10
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donsun




People Skills : 5505
Registration date : 2009-04-30
Age : 33
Location : Ridgewood, NJ / Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeSun May 24, 2009 8:11 pm

cool, it's not just one piece though, right? still trying to imagine the motor inside Neutral
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Jeff L
Minister of Silly Walks
Minister of Silly Walks
Jeff L


People Skills : 6546
Registration date : 2009-03-14
Age : 34
Location : Miami, FL / Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeSun May 24, 2009 9:15 pm

donsun wrote:
cool, it's not just one piece though, right? still trying to imagine the motor inside Neutral
No, that's the old drum I had come up with; it was never intended to have an in-drum motor. The new version won't use the gigantic chunk of metal on the inside and will instead use tungsten rods embedded in the walls to counterbalance the drum, leaving a nice wide-open space for hardware. For simplicity I also didn't make the teeth separate from the drum in to figure out what I'd need to do to balance it in this model.
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Dan Curhan
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Dan Curhan


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Location : Sarasota, FL

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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeSun May 24, 2009 11:48 pm

as balanced as that drum may be... how on earth were you planning on creating it??
i know your modified concept is more doable, but that one... jesus lol.
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Jeff L
Minister of Silly Walks
Minister of Silly Walks
Jeff L


People Skills : 6546
Registration date : 2009-03-14
Age : 34
Location : Miami, FL / Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeMon May 25, 2009 12:29 am

Dan Curhan wrote:
as balanced as that drum may be... how on earth were you planning on creating it??
i know your modified concept is more doable, but that one... jesus lol.
I'm not sure really, lol... I would've found a way. Probably by having the counterweight milled separately and bolting it into the drum wall. Now that I'm going with a bigger drum and the tungsten counterweights, it'll be much easier to machine and assemble.
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Cody
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Cody


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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeMon May 25, 2009 2:34 am

for that drum ^ i would say easy lol
It looks basically 1 axis you could just have it wire burnt from a solid piece
Wills would have been able to be wire burnt except for his single teeth made it more complicated
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Jeff L
Minister of Silly Walks
Minister of Silly Walks
Jeff L


People Skills : 6546
Registration date : 2009-03-14
Age : 34
Location : Miami, FL / Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeMon May 25, 2009 2:39 am

Cody Harris wrote:
for that drum ^ i would say easy lol
It looks basically 1 axis you could just have it wire burnt from a solid piece
Wills would have been able to be wire burnt except for his single teeth made it more complicated
I think we were all thinking "How in hell am I going to machine that evil shape on the inside."
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Cody
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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeMon May 25, 2009 3:16 am

I know what you ment and i still think you could EDM it
We've wire burnt lots of stuff its pretty cool
have you ever seen our frames? there all wire burnt
https://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/photo.php?pid=1613576&id=691736481&ref=mf

it wont let me host the picture for some reason scratch
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donsun




People Skills : 5505
Registration date : 2009-04-30
Age : 33
Location : Ridgewood, NJ / Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeMon May 25, 2009 10:37 am

as long as you find a way to drill a thru hole in the drum, you should be able to wire EDM the inside shape as well altho i'm sure it'll take a good amount of time to complete.
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Cody
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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeMon May 25, 2009 12:04 pm

a couple hours, i would maybe guess 3 or 4, but i honestly have no clue haha
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Josh Raichel
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Josh Raichel


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Location : Bradenville, PA

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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeMon May 25, 2009 1:17 pm

EDM can do that drum easily. To find out how long it will take, just measure the inside cut parameter.

Our school's EDM does about .075 a min i believe. But ours is a small older EDM so newer ones are faster.
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Jeff L
Minister of Silly Walks
Minister of Silly Walks
Jeff L


People Skills : 6546
Registration date : 2009-03-14
Age : 34
Location : Miami, FL / Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Update 5/26/2009   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeTue May 26, 2009 11:56 pm

No new CAD drawings so far, but I'm finally creating a parts list:

4x 28mm 25:1 banebots motors (and matching ESCs)
1x 5000 mAh 11.1V 30C lipo battery
1x BR6000

7075 Aluminum Chassis with UHMW internal bracing
Angled exterior armor will preferably be steel or titanium (if weight allows), or more 7075.
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donsun




People Skills : 5505
Registration date : 2009-04-30
Age : 33
Location : Ridgewood, NJ / Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeWed May 27, 2009 12:16 am

I've usually questioned the durability of the 28mm's in the 12lb class, but I suppose they should be fine since you're using four of them. When you said matching esc's do you mean an individual one for each motor, or just one banebots 12-45 esc per side. Also, I know lipo's are very light, but I think 5000mAh is a little overkill since I run over 5minutes with 2300mAh A123's in Torrent. Lastly, I was wondering why you chose to use 7075 because I always found bending/flexing of 6061 more favorable than the harder, stiffer 7075. Or if you have the funds to provide titanium, then why not just use 2024 grade aluminum.
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Jeff L
Minister of Silly Walks
Minister of Silly Walks
Jeff L


People Skills : 6546
Registration date : 2009-03-14
Age : 34
Location : Miami, FL / Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeWed May 27, 2009 1:15 am

The first rough assembly with components:
Infernal Contraption Ic1a10
I'll probably be enlarging the body a little more to make wiring comfortable, but as of now it should be able to fit all the electronics. To give you some idea of this thing's size, it's 7 inches wide at the moment (not counting the axles).

EDIT: Only the rear wheels will actually be directly mounted to the output shaft of the gearboxes. The front wheels will be directly under with the drum's axle.


Last edited by Jeff L on Wed May 27, 2009 1:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Cody
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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeWed May 27, 2009 1:40 am

hm....
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jeeves_m_d
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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeWed May 27, 2009 2:49 pm

if u are going to bother putting pulleys on the front wheels, i would stick with 2 motors. and use pulleys from the rear. to save some space, and maybe put some weight u save towards larger banebots
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Jeff L
Minister of Silly Walks
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Jeff L


People Skills : 6546
Registration date : 2009-03-14
Age : 34
Location : Miami, FL / Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitimeWed May 27, 2009 2:59 pm

jeeves_m_d wrote:
if u are going to bother putting pulleys on the front wheels, i would stick with 2 motors. and use pulleys from the rear. to save some space, and maybe put some weight u save towards larger banebots
I considered that, but what I'm trying to do requires the robot to be VERY short. Right now the chassis is 1.5" thick, 1.625" high off the ground. It'll make a bit more sense when I finish some more parts for the chassis.
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PostSubject: Re: Infernal Contraption   Infernal Contraption I_icon_minitime

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