Battlebots
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Battlebots

A new forum for battlebots enthusiasts, competitors, and fans.
 
HomeLatest imagesRegisterLog inBuilders DB

 

 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em

Go down 
+3
Will Bales
Jeff L
rjw
7 posters
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
AuthorMessage
rjw
Chief Bottle Washer
Chief Bottle Washer
rjw


People Skills : 7736
Registration date : 2009-03-31
Location : Miami

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 1:57 am

Wierd..... My reply ended up as part of Cody's post?????
Back to top Go down
http://www.R2RCR.com
rjw
Chief Bottle Washer
Chief Bottle Washer
rjw


People Skills : 7736
Registration date : 2009-03-31
Location : Miami

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 2:01 am

Cody Harris wrote:
Josh Raichel wrote:
rjw wrote:
All this talk about vacuum holdowns, magnets, etc.

Does anyone wonder why Sting and Sting'Em have very little gyro? Is it that Ke or MOI is so low? or ????

You pay off the judges and inspection crews, and secretly put in rods of Osmium to make the bot super heavy as to not gyro?

hm you sorta did just pull out three pound bots, we never know what your up to Razz

With Sting's first drum at 40k, it was creating over 1k joule of energy, yet it didn't gyro hardly at all. A 2
wide vertical spinner on the same exact bot gyro'd like crazy.

Come on guys you can figure it out....Anyone notice that our top and bottom covers have a curvature to them?
Back to top Go down
http://www.R2RCR.com
Cody
2000+ club
2000+ club
Cody


People Skills : 7783
Registration date : 2009-03-16

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 2:10 am

curvature? do you mean how puller/wheel is opposite front and back?
After i walked away from the first of my last post i thought about it a little. I think the biggest effect of gyro is diameter. Look at the gyro of a vertical disc its usually terrible. Weight and speed just help



that was your post number 666 btw Twisted Evil


Last edited by Cody Harris on Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:13 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
rjw
Chief Bottle Washer
Chief Bottle Washer
rjw


People Skills : 7736
Registration date : 2009-03-31
Location : Miami

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 2:13 am

Cody Harris wrote:
curvature? do you mean how puller/wheel is opposite front and back?
After i walked away from the first of my last post i thought about it a little. I think the biggest effect of gyro is diameter. Look at the gyro of a vertical disc its usually terrible. Weight and speed just help

No, I mean that the covers are not flat they have a convex shape from front to back

My vertical was same weight, diameter and speed as the drum.
Back to top Go down
http://www.R2RCR.com
Cody
2000+ club
2000+ club
Cody


People Skills : 7783
Registration date : 2009-03-16

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 2:15 am

so the distance of the weight from the center of the wheels may be the key?

I tried looking back threw your pictures and cant see a convex to them
Back to top Go down
rjw
Chief Bottle Washer
Chief Bottle Washer
rjw


People Skills : 7736
Registration date : 2009-03-31
Location : Miami

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 2:31 am

Cody Harris wrote:
so the distance of the weight from the center of the wheels may be the key?

I tried looking back threw your pictures and cant see a convex to them

Ok...I'll spill the beans, but remember that you heard it here.

One day, when TTATT was a drumbot, we notice that with the drum running at high speed, that it was actually causing a flag to wave from 30 or so feet away. That's puishing a lot of air!!!

So where is the air coming from? We tweaked things including distance of drum to the front crossbrace and the shape of the lower cover, so as to force a lot of that air to be drawn from under the bot (from the back) The convex bottom cover helped make a venturii effect under the bot and therefore a vacuum.

This is helping hold the bot down and its FREE. It's not quite that simple, in that we can screw things up and actually almost float the bot, but that's all I can say about this at the moment.

Currently , we are looking at air flow in SW of the hammerhead drum and bottom cover curvature to try and optimize the aerodynamics of the whole setup. this COULD lead to much lower amperage draw and more vacuum holdown effect...or NOT...lol

Is this cool, bizarre or what?
Back to top Go down
http://www.R2RCR.com
Cody
2000+ club
2000+ club
Cody


People Skills : 7783
Registration date : 2009-03-16

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 2:56 am

thats nuts!
Back to top Go down
rjw
Chief Bottle Washer
Chief Bottle Washer
rjw


People Skills : 7736
Registration date : 2009-03-31
Location : Miami

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 3:00 am

Nuts?

as in bizarre , insane or pipe dream? drunken

Impossible, unrealistic, cashews? What a Face
Back to top Go down
http://www.R2RCR.com
Cody
2000+ club
2000+ club
Cody


People Skills : 7783
Registration date : 2009-03-16

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 3:09 am

elephant
Back to top Go down
rjw
Chief Bottle Washer
Chief Bottle Washer
rjw


People Skills : 7736
Registration date : 2009-03-31
Location : Miami

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 3:13 am

You may recall that years ago, pipes with check valve were installed at a 45 degree angle into headers and then hoses connected them to the valve covers of race/performance cars. The exhaust created a venturi effect and removed crackcase pressure from the engine. This resulted in about 5 hp gain. If too effective, oil seals had to be turned around backwards so as to not draw dirt in through the main seals on the crank.

This was FREE power and although not great, still better than crankcase build up and sludge in the engine or the cost of a vacuum pump or whatever.

Whenever there is air flow, you can ignore it, suffer from it or try to take advantage of it.

How many teams are looking at the aerodynamics of their bots as a whole.

Nuts, maybe, but worth the look if your bot has a spinning weapon.
Back to top Go down
http://www.R2RCR.com
Cody
2000+ club
2000+ club
Cody


People Skills : 7783
Registration date : 2009-03-16

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 3:18 am

I actually was just playing with something like this last night. My friend has a yamahaha banshee. The twin cylinder two strokes. It would kick start but would bump start and ran like a bat out of hell when it started.
Turns out there a tube from the case to the carbs and another that runs between them. Turns out it was all caused cause the tube between them was missing.

Stuff like this makes me wanna be more proficient in solidworks!
Back to top Go down
rjw
Chief Bottle Washer
Chief Bottle Washer
rjw


People Skills : 7736
Registration date : 2009-03-31
Location : Miami

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 3:36 am

Cody Harris wrote:
I actually was just playing with something like this last night. My friend has a yamahaha banshee. The twin cylinder two strokes. It would kick start but would bump start and ran like a bat out of hell when it started.
Turns out there a tube from the case to the carbs and another that runs between them. Turns out it was all caused cause the tube between them was missing.

Stuff like this makes me wanna be more proficient in solidworks!

If we are successful in battle and if it is partly due to some aero tweaking, then people will pay attention and ask questions. Everyone loves a winner, no one cares about the losers.

On that note, if our somewhat cutting edge BS pays off, then bot bulders may have no choice but to do finite analysis and aero tweaks on their bots if they want to stay cutting edge.

They will have no choice but to learn some of the more advanced features of programs like SW.

In regards to another thread on this forum. I wouldn't advise anyone to shy away from sw in favor of simplicity, because the techno race may get very heated soon.
Back to top Go down
http://www.R2RCR.com
Cody
2000+ club
2000+ club
Cody


People Skills : 7783
Registration date : 2009-03-16

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 3:42 am

undercutters are going to be designed like propellers eventualy to reduce drag and create downforce one day
you heard it hear haha kidding but seriously
Back to top Go down
rjw
Chief Bottle Washer
Chief Bottle Washer
rjw


People Skills : 7736
Registration date : 2009-03-31
Location : Miami

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 3:49 am

Cody Harris wrote:
undercutters are going to be designed like propellers eventualy to reduce drag and create downforce one day
you heard it hear haha kidding but seriously

If air is flowing, then there is room to either improve or mess up the aero

As an example, everyone builds round drums. Not square ot triangular ones and for obvious reasons. It's been that way forever???

Like all other technologies, like car racing, it will come down to the fine tuning and little tweaks..

This sport is still has a ways to go...look at the America's cup sailboat races. A few years back someone came up woth paint that emulated the skin of a shark or whatever and smoked the competition.
Back to top Go down
http://www.R2RCR.com
Will Bales
ULTRA contributor
ULTRA contributor
Will Bales


People Skills : 6134
Registration date : 2009-03-15
Age : 31
Location : Miami, FL

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 9:05 am

Now that you mention the air flow thing under your robot, it all makes sense! Now i'm curious about something....

if we put a skirt around the bottom of fluffy, and there was an opening for the air to escape where the drum is.. will it create a vacuum? we could also try it on rattler.. I still want to make a vacuum unit!
Back to top Go down
rjw
Chief Bottle Washer
Chief Bottle Washer
rjw


People Skills : 7736
Registration date : 2009-03-31
Location : Miami

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 11:10 am

Will Bales wrote:
Now that you mention the air flow thing under your robot, it all makes sense! Now i'm curious about something....

if we put a skirt around the bottom of fluffy, and there was an opening for the air to escape where the drum is.. will it create a vacuum? we could also try it on rattler.. I still want to make a vacuum unit!

You have the weight to spare and a true vac unit would obviously have a lot more potential.

I you put a skirt on Fluff and we put one on Rat, would we then enter them in the BLUE dividion...lol

On a side note, 'Little Thump' might be resurrected for Youth Fair Maybe you could get 'Woodynator' back up and running....nostalgia battle just for giggles???
Back to top Go down
http://www.R2RCR.com
Will Bales
ULTRA contributor
ULTRA contributor
Will Bales


People Skills : 6134
Registration date : 2009-03-15
Age : 31
Location : Miami, FL

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 12:15 pm

not totally out of the question! might have to make a new disk..
Back to top Go down
Jeff L
Minister of Silly Walks
Minister of Silly Walks
Jeff L


People Skills : 6546
Registration date : 2009-03-14
Age : 34
Location : Miami, FL / Atlanta, GA

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 2:29 pm

rjw wrote:
Jeff L wrote:
Eh, bigger robots tend to react differently compared to smaller robots - not many large robots have the same energy-to-weight ratio as a hobbyweight or mini. A soft enough aluminum alloy should reduce how far you're thrown in exchange for the aluminum being deformed/ablated. When you've got a material like Ti or steel, they're going to maintain their shape much better and act in a much more elastic fashion.

What about a bot like Touro? Seemd to be ALL hard armor except for some stainless on the front angles

Also, are you saying that the 120's have more or less power to weight than the smaller bots?

120's (in the current generation [robots that already exist and are not currently being designed]) don't have the same power to weight as a 15 by a long shot. The best example of this is Fluffy & Copperhead - Fluffy's weapon stores around 6kJ, Copperhead's stores 18-19 kJ; a robot 1/8th the weight of the other has 1/3 the weapon output.

Touro was mostly aluminum with very thin Ti & steel plate over the chassis - one of their armor variants though was to switch out the steel in the front angled sections with aluminum or magnesium, so they could head straight into an opponent's weapon. I personally don't like Touro because it's horrifically obsolete in many ways - old batteries, a tiny and rather ineffective drum. All it's really got going for it is its overbuilt chassis.

The 120s currently being designed are incorporating the lessons learned with the 15s, especially drum robots. Sum of All Fears will be capable of storing at least two times as much energy as copperhead in its drum, with a peak around 5-6 times as much energy. Since the drum diameter is also very similar to large-diameter 15 lber drums, it also benefits from methods to prevent chattering at the speeds it'll run at. This should also mean that the probability a 120 will be thrown - and thrown far - will increase, as new 120s will be much closer to if not at the same power-to-weight ratio of a 15 lber.
Back to top Go down
Cody
2000+ club
2000+ club
Cody


People Skills : 7783
Registration date : 2009-03-16

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 2:38 pm

k so toro has a single tooth drum thats a moderate size for drums in the class now and def has the capabilities of throwing other robots pretty well
Back to top Go down
rjw
Chief Bottle Washer
Chief Bottle Washer
rjw


People Skills : 7736
Registration date : 2009-03-31
Location : Miami

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 2:39 pm

You keep referring to Sum of all fears...any pics? where is this bot from?

Touro's latest single blade drum seems to be doing allright....except for losing the blade.

What about all the big blade horizontal spinners....old tech, but a lot of energy...no?

Also, if scaling up a bot like fluffy, our record so far isn't that bad

Rattler 2 hit the ceiling at 200 mph (or whatever) and survived....also rattler 2 is much weaker than TTATT which seemed to take a full hit from Fluffy and not even hiccup.

I'm not ALL that worried about verticals, in scaling TTATT...more so about undercutters with HUGE bars.

But I could be totally out to lunch...it's happened before on many occasions...haha

Jeff.. please keep the constructive criticism coming...it can only help us in the long run.
Back to top Go down
http://www.R2RCR.com
Jeff L
Minister of Silly Walks
Minister of Silly Walks
Jeff L


People Skills : 6546
Registration date : 2009-03-14
Age : 34
Location : Miami, FL / Atlanta, GA

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 2:50 pm

Just so you know: The Touro I am referring to is the one built by Riobotz. I've seen video of it, and I am not very impressed. It's not made with the proper dimensions and wall thicknesses to get to the right power-to-weight ratio for the drum. Now, you might be thinking of Touro Maximus, which looks pretty legit. That one is a 220 though.

Sum of All Fears is the Georgia Tech 120 that's currently in the works. There aren't any pictures, but it sort of looks like your standard large-diameter-drum 15, but with the dimensions thrown out of whack for the chassis & drum length.
Back to top Go down
Jeff L
Minister of Silly Walks
Minister of Silly Walks
Jeff L


People Skills : 6546
Registration date : 2009-03-14
Age : 34
Location : Miami, FL / Atlanta, GA

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 2:54 pm

As a followup to that, if you do use the Ti that's fine. Just keep in mind that it should be designed to fly.
Back to top Go down
Cody
2000+ club
2000+ club
Cody


People Skills : 7783
Registration date : 2009-03-16

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 2:55 pm

yeah were all talking about the same touro, riobotz when single tooth on all there bots

yes i would do things differently but overall its one of the top bots in the weight class and your comparing it to a bot you havent even built yet!
Didnt you say you were planning on using nicads and your commenting on there obsolete batteries?!
Back to top Go down
Cody
2000+ club
2000+ club
Cody


People Skills : 7783
Registration date : 2009-03-16

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 2:56 pm

i dont know much about it but isnt the 12olb falcon titanium?!
Dan how much air time did copperhead get this year after switching to ti?
Back to top Go down
rjw
Chief Bottle Washer
Chief Bottle Washer
rjw


People Skills : 7736
Registration date : 2009-03-31
Location : Miami

120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 3:01 pm

Touro 120 is a fine example of a bot that has adapted to changes thoughout the years.

They fought everybody and it's still running???

Common sens tells me that if sum of all fears has such a powerful weapon, then there has to be compromises on the structure. Maybe it won't be able to handle its own power....Our 120 TTATT clone will be a brick outhouse and definitely able to fly, which I'm sure it will.
Back to top Go down
http://www.R2RCR.com
Sponsored content





120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em   120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em - Page 2 I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
120 pounds of TTATT or Sting'Em
Back to top 
Page 2 of 4Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 Similar topics
-
» 12 pounds of TTATT for Nerc???
» Scaling down TTATT to 12 pounds

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Battlebots :: Team Update Pages :: Team Jag-
Jump to: