People Skills : 5765 Registration date : 2009-04-30 Age : 33 Location : Bradenville, PA
Subject: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:21 pm
Take it how you want. Still N Shock was the winner...
rjw Chief Bottle Washer
People Skills : 7737 Registration date : 2009-03-31 Location : Miami
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:31 pm
So...what are you saying???
Was SnS dead at the end?
It looked like both bots were dead.....
Josh Raichel great contributor
People Skills : 5765 Registration date : 2009-04-30 Age : 33 Location : Bradenville, PA
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:07 pm
Well each team has their own view about how that should have turned out.
So i just wanna see what others think.
Cody 2000+ club
People Skills : 7784 Registration date : 2009-03-16
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:29 pm
you cant go with a video that misses the begining of the match. Your bot had to get on its side somehow so thats already trying to throw a biased opinion. rule 7.4.6 Incapicitation in the botsiq tournament rules and procedures.
Quote :
The Referee will allow a maximum of 20 seconds (the final 10 seconds of which will be verbally counted down) for the Operators to demonstrate that the robot or MultiSeg is Responsive.
Quote :
Responsive – Means that, as determined by a Referee, the robot can display some kind of controlled movement along the Arena floor. A moving robot whose translational movement cannot be controlled by its Operators is considered to be non-Responsive.
This video shows Alphahawgs twenty seconds(it didnt get knocked down till 27/28 seconds)on top of what time wasnt shown. From MY interpretation of the rules this shouldnt have been restarted(the video is post restart, the judges stopped it and restarted). This is a judging/refereeing controversy more so then a win/lose.
Cody 2000+ club
People Skills : 7784 Registration date : 2009-03-16
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:34 pm
sucky cell phone video. I stopped filming because the ref started counting down, then proceeded to end the match
Again this is like arguing with a ref after you were called for a penalty, your still getting a penalty
rjw Chief Bottle Washer
People Skills : 7737 Registration date : 2009-03-31 Location : Miami
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:38 pm
was SnS's weapon broken at the end...from some or one of the hits?
Looks like both bots died in the end with alpha struggling for a bit longer.
Also, not sure about total lack of movement in the beginning, but SnS DIDN't have to bring Alpha back into the game...could have left it on its side.....so....
Not seeing the beginning doesn't help either
I say rematch is in order....lol
EDIT: Cody thru up the beginning while I was fumbling with keys
Nice hit from the getgo....
That's the kind of fight that usually end up with someone being unhappy .......
If Alpha was immobilized, then Plum should have been screaming fo a count out, but they proceeded to let alpha back in, which you don't see that often.....in the end, looks like alpha had the last little movement, which in many cases = the win.
Not sure how much damage was done to either bot????? SnS had better hits in between...
Up until a few weeks ago, in the heat of the moment, I would have been upset in either case...
bottom line: If you don't destroy, mutilate , divide into very small pieces, etc. there is no guarantee that you're gonna win.
We told our kids before nat's, if ALL that is left of your opponent is 1 wheel still rolling, it's not a guaranteed win.... You have to take it out of the judges hands, period.
Last edited by rjw on Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
Cody 2000+ club
People Skills : 7784 Registration date : 2009-03-16
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:46 pm
last hit beater cracked
the only movement from alpha was from the unbalanced drum, which doesnt constitute controlled movement how i read it
rjw Chief Bottle Washer
People Skills : 7737 Registration date : 2009-03-31 Location : Miami
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:56 pm
Cody Harris wrote:
last hit beater cracked
the only movement from alpha was from the unbalanced drum, which doesnt constitute controlled movement how i read it
that's my point...if that was the case, they should have stopped it right there, but it seems that they didn't.
then you guys went and hit them, letting them back in. Most would probably have left them there for the rest of the match, while asking for a countout....
Similar to litle Sting vs Ramvac...Sting was winning and ended up on its side or back??? If ramvac could have even moved an inch, it would have won.
Could have used an unbalanced drum then...lol
the Alpha guys also need screws or whatever sticking out the sides and back, to help tip the bot back over.... I forgot to put them in before the ramvac fight....duh
Last edited by rjw on Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Don Doerfler super contributor
People Skills : 5609 Registration date : 2009-12-24 Age : 29 Location : Plum,Pa
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:56 pm
This is what it looked like when we took it apart
rjw Chief Bottle Washer
People Skills : 7737 Registration date : 2009-03-31 Location : Miami
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:03 pm
Hold up your hand and have the rookie run his face into it as hard as he can....lol
then tell him not to do that again...
I guess the wall thickness between the holes was a bit thin...or was the beater too hard....nice break....
wish we could see what was going on right after the first hit.....from what I saw (on the 10th viewing) alpha actually (while on its side) turned 90 degrees and nthen moved a few inches.
Kind of like Kyle's shuffler in another video hahaha...took him almost a minute to go from 1 end of the arena to the other....
I still see unfinished business... no grudge matches allowed there?
Will both bots be in KC in June????
Cody 2000+ club
People Skills : 7784 Registration date : 2009-03-16
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:13 pm
the count down part is what bugs me the most. they were counted out. then for some reason all rules were thrown out cause an adviser was yelling that they were still moving, uncontroled movement at that, the fight should still go.(ours either video tapes or sits in the stands at competitions any more) I'd like to hear a reason from the judges/ref on why it was RE started
Rookie driver. With the match restarting, he left them go for over a half a minute but with them not doing anything i think he was beyond confused, i was/wouldve been in his position.
Dont worry RJW i talked to him about mistakes he made and what to do in situations after too
Josh Raichel great contributor
People Skills : 5765 Registration date : 2009-04-30 Age : 33 Location : Bradenville, PA
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:33 pm
They did not count us out when they stopped the match. We ask for a restart cause they never gave us a countdown. We were close to hitting the wall and flipping ourselfs over.. It seems the unbalanced drum isn't controlled movement, but. We were on our side. The bot was showing full signs of life. If i remember last year at Nationals, you guys were in a similar predicament with Uppercut.
After you hit us it was a normal match again. Thou we told you to hit us, cause it was the more sportsman like thing to do. We didnt fight all day then we get a unlucky hit like that. Give us a break.
After you got us back over we were both in a driving match until the beater breaking hit. Then ONE of our motors was not spinning properly.
We were still moving. With just 1 wheel.
Then you hit us once or twice while driving, then went into the wall, and did NOT MOVE for over 40 secs until the end of the match. Whilst we continued to show controlled movement by tapping you, then driving up ontop of you. Thou not mencing movement, but it was controllable none the less.
Cody 2000+ club
People Skills : 7784 Registration date : 2009-03-16
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:21 pm
RJW-does this count as a rematch?
Josh Raichel great contributor
People Skills : 5765 Registration date : 2009-04-30 Age : 33 Location : Bradenville, PA
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:01 pm
It does not. different bot.
rdubard mega contributor
People Skills : 5904 Registration date : 2009-06-10 Age : 59 Location : Ransom Everglades, Miami, FL
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:12 pm
I agree. It does not because one bot kicked the crap out of another, over and over again, and at the 'end' one still had controlled movement and the other did not.
I don't think I get your point.
Jeff L Minister of Silly Walks
People Skills : 6547 Registration date : 2009-03-14 Age : 34 Location : Miami, FL / Atlanta, GA
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:27 pm
I'm agreeing with dubard here. If one robot is not exhibiting controlled movement, it's over. Heck, that was the entire reasoning behind X-Contamination's weapon.
Cody 2000+ club
People Skills : 7784 Registration date : 2009-03-16
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:36 pm
following josh's argument of weapon moving and the controlled movement theory, it isnt clear when the match was actually over. We were never counted out. This now comes down to judges decesion. Look at aggression and damage and i would have to say that Still'N Shock would win by judges decesion This is to the point of just making up excuses now. I still stick with the rules and what happened in that video should have never actually happened.
rjw Chief Bottle Washer
People Skills : 7737 Registration date : 2009-03-31 Location : Miami
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:40 pm
Cody Harris wrote:
RJW-does this count as a rematch?
Not unless that was SnS with a drum?
It does count as a severe thrashing , tho...
Let me ask a safety question?
Why do they let both teams into the arena to place/start their bots at the same time?
Anyone think that that is a bit dangerous???
Cody 2000+ club
People Skills : 7784 Registration date : 2009-03-16
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:45 pm
ha another example....... non translational movement but they were still let go cause "a wheel moved" but not a bot
very unsafe btw set them down in the doors and drive to the corners when the doors are closed
Last edited by Cody Harris on Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
rjw Chief Bottle Washer
People Skills : 7737 Registration date : 2009-03-31 Location : Miami
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:46 pm
I like the name in the movie caption
Finial shock
are there 4 shock bots???
rjw Chief Bottle Washer
People Skills : 7737 Registration date : 2009-03-31 Location : Miami
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:00 pm
does Carmen have the finial say ?
Don Doerfler super contributor
People Skills : 5609 Registration date : 2009-12-24 Age : 29 Location : Plum,Pa
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:12 pm
on one of the bots one of our weapons bushings got pushed out and the weapon could barely move
Cody 2000+ club
People Skills : 7784 Registration date : 2009-03-16
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:13 pm
do you guys always knock other bots back into a position to continue a fight? When was the last time you guys were in a postition to win a competition and fought each other?
Quote :
A Mini Class BotsIQ robot has to be able to demonstrate that it can move at a speed of at least six inches-per-second in an approximate straight line.
this really isnt all that hard to accomplish Drive on one side is still controled movement, driving around the arena inverted on your saw blade isnt(Connelsville) they were allowed to try flip themselves in the countdown as they went all around on there reversible weapon. It wasnt a controled movement so they were counted out.
Theres a reason there is a rule set You cant run a FAIR competition by not following the written rules.
Carmen is the head of IQ PA that was part of her official repsonse after discussing it with the entire "Comittee"
The past is the past, you lost to us, twice, the competitions over look towards the next match
Cody 2000+ club
People Skills : 7784 Registration date : 2009-03-16
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:13 pm
Don D wrote:
on one of the bots one of our weapons bushings got pushed out and the weapon could barely move
you know after they did fight each other....
Don Doerfler super contributor
People Skills : 5609 Registration date : 2009-12-24 Age : 29 Location : Plum,Pa
Subject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:15 pm
Cody Harris wrote:
Don D wrote:
on one of the bots one of our weapons bushings got pushed out and the weapon could barely move