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 Alphahawg vs Still N Shock

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Josh Raichel
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PostSubject: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:21 pm

Take it how you want. Still N Shock was the winner...


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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:31 pm

So...what are you saying???

Was SnS dead at the end?

It looked like both bots were dead..... affraid

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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:07 pm

Well each team has their own view about how that should have turned out.

So i just wanna see what others think.
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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:29 pm

you cant go with a video that misses the begining of the match. Your bot had to get on its side somehow so thats already trying to throw a biased opinion.
rule 7.4.6 Incapicitation in the botsiq tournament rules and procedures.
Quote :
The Referee will allow a maximum of 20 seconds (the final 10 seconds of which will be verbally
counted down) for the Operators to demonstrate that the robot or MultiSeg is Responsive.
Quote :

Responsive – Means that, as determined by a Referee, the robot can display some kind of controlled
movement along the Arena floor. A moving robot whose translational movement cannot be
controlled by its Operators is considered to be non-Responsive.

This video shows Alphahawgs twenty seconds(it didnt get knocked down till 27/28 seconds)on top of what time wasnt shown.
From MY interpretation of the rules this shouldnt have been restarted(the video is post restart, the judges stopped it and restarted).
This is a judging/refereeing controversy more so then a win/lose.
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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:34 pm

sucky cell phone video. I stopped filming because the ref started counting down, then proceeded to end the match

Again this is like arguing with a ref after you were called for a penalty, your still getting a penalty
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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:38 pm

was SnS's weapon broken at the end...from some or one of the hits?

Looks like both bots died in the end with alpha struggling for a bit longer.

Also, not sure about total lack of movement in the beginning, but SnS DIDN't have to bring Alpha back into the game...could have left it on its side.....so....

Not seeing the beginning doesn't help either

I say rematch is in order....lol


EDIT: Cody thru up the beginning while I was fumbling with keys

Nice hit from the getgo....

That's the kind of fight that usually end up with someone being unhappy .......

If Alpha was immobilized, then Plum should have been screaming fo a count out, but they proceeded to let alpha back in, which you don't see that often.....in the end, looks like alpha had the last little movement, which in many cases = the win.

Not sure how much damage was done to either bot????? SnS had better hits in between...

Up until a few weeks ago, in the heat of the moment, I would have been upset in either case...

bottom line: If you don't destroy, mutilate , divide into very small pieces, etc. there is no guarantee that you're gonna win.

We told our kids before nat's, if ALL that is left of your opponent is 1 wheel still rolling, it's not a guaranteed win.... You have to take it out of the judges hands, period.

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Last edited by rjw on Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:46 pm

last hit beater cracked

the only movement from alpha was from the unbalanced drum, which doesnt constitute controlled movement how i read it
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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:56 pm

Cody Harris wrote:
last hit beater cracked

the only movement from alpha was from the unbalanced drum, which doesnt constitute controlled movement how i read it

that's my point...if that was the case, they should have stopped it right there, but it seems that they didn't.

then you guys went and hit them, letting them back in. Most would probably have left them there for the rest of the match, while asking for a countout....

Similar to litle Sting vs Ramvac...Sting was winning and ended up on its side or back??? If ramvac could have even moved an inch, it would have won.

Could have used an unbalanced drum then...lol

the Alpha guys also need screws or whatever sticking out the sides and back, to help tip the bot back over.... I forgot to put them in before the ramvac fight....duh

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Last edited by rjw on Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:56 pm

This is what it looked like when we took it apart

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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:03 pm

Hold up your hand and have the rookie run his face into it as hard as he can....lol

then tell him not to do that again... jocolor

I guess the wall thickness between the holes was a bit thin...or was the beater too hard....nice break....

wish we could see what was going on right after the first hit.....from what I saw (on the 10th viewing) alpha actually (while on its side) turned 90 degrees and nthen moved a few inches.

Kind of like Kyle's shuffler in another video hahaha...took him almost a minute to go from 1 end of the arena to the other.... jocolor

I still see unfinished business... no grudge matches allowed there?

Will both bots be in KC in June????

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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:13 pm

the count down part is what bugs me the most. they were counted out. then for some reason all rules were thrown out cause an adviser was yelling that they were still moving, uncontroled movement at that, the fight should still go.(ours either video tapes or sits in the stands at competitions any more)
I'd like to hear a reason from the judges/ref on why it was RE started

Rookie driver. With the match restarting, he left them go for over a half a minute but with them not doing anything i think he was beyond confused, i was/wouldve been in his position.

Dont worry RJW i talked to him about mistakes he made and what to do in situations after too Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:33 pm

They did not count us out when they stopped the match. We ask for a restart cause they never gave us a countdown. We were close to hitting the wall and flipping ourselfs over.. It seems the unbalanced drum isn't controlled movement, but. We were on our side. The bot was showing full signs of life. If i remember last year at Nationals, you guys were in a similar predicament with Uppercut.

After you hit us it was a normal match again. Thou we told you to hit us, cause it was the more sportsman like thing to do. We didnt fight all day then we get a unlucky hit like that. Give us a break.

After you got us back over we were both in a driving match until the beater breaking hit. Then ONE of our motors was not spinning properly.

We were still moving. With just 1 wheel.

Then you hit us once or twice while driving, then went into the wall, and did NOT MOVE for over 40 secs until the end of the match. Whilst we continued to show controlled movement by tapping you, then driving up ontop of you. Thou not mencing movement, but it was controllable none the less.
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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:42 pm

The closest thing to that we've come is Fayette getting SNS stuck on the wall, we lost that match cause of it and took 1st and 3rd in the competition since SNS had forfeited to aftershock already.
Or when Bloomsburg got stuck on there batteries and they let both bots sit till three minutes were up.

There was a countdown. Even if there wasnt there should have been, i've been arguing that this is a judgeing/ref mistanke not a win or lose. Many many bots have lost matches because the got stuck on there sides, even in that competition, its a design flaw, but no one else was given a chance to restart the match till you guys.



They were working themselves off the wall in the ten second countdown, alex went in and pushed them to a point they couldnt get unstuck. They were given ten seconds and it was declared a knockout for SNS


Last edited by Cody Harris on Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:21 pm

RJW-does this count as a rematch?
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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:01 pm

It does not. different bot.
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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:12 pm

I agree. It does not because one bot kicked the crap out of another, over and over again, and at the 'end' one still had controlled movement and the other did not.

I don't think I get your point.
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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:27 pm

I'm agreeing with dubard here. If one robot is not exhibiting controlled movement, it's over. Heck, that was the entire reasoning behind X-Contamination's weapon.

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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:36 pm

following josh's argument of weapon moving and the controlled movement theory, it isnt clear when the match was actually over. We were never counted out. This now comes down to judges decesion.
Look at aggression and damage and i would have to say that Still'N Shock would win by judges decesion
This is to the point of just making up excuses now.
I still stick with the rules and what happened in that video should have never actually happened.
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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:37 pm

Alex Udanis wrote:
His robot was given a ten count to be counted out. P The referee declared EWCTC immobilized.This is when their robot was on their side Plum was written as a winner on the bracket.(2.2.2 Says a robot must move in an approximate straight line at a speed of 6in per second) The match should of been called there.

The officials at the event don't know the rules. They weren't going to let us forfeit to ourselves in the final. The referee, judges, and "executive committee " should be aware of the rules.

My email last year lol
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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:40 pm

Cody Harris wrote:
RJW-does this count as a rematch?

Not unless that was SnS with a drum?

It does count as a severe thrashing , tho... affraid

Let me ask a safety question?

Why do they let both teams into the arena to place/start their bots at the same time?

Anyone think that that is a bit dangerous???

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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:45 pm

ha another example.......
non translational movement but they were still let go cause "a wheel moved" but not a bot

very unsafe btw set them down in the doors and drive to the corners when the doors are closed


Last edited by Cody Harris on Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:46 pm

I like the name in the movie caption

Finial shock

are there 4 shock bots???

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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:50 pm

haha then you spelled caption wrong!!! lol

at century 3 theres were three idk what aftershocks doing anymore, its not allowed to compete here cause it was forced retired (rules) and well we already have three lol

alex i went into the archives...
Quote :
A bot is incapacitated when there is no ”translational movement”. For example, if the bot is upside down, the wheels could still be spinning but if there is no translational movement the bot is incapacitated. -Carmen
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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:00 pm

does Carmen have the finial say ? jocolor

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PostSubject: Re: Alphahawg vs Still N Shock   Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:00 pm

Alex Udanis wrote:
His robot was given a ten count to be counted out. P The referee declared EWCTC immobilized.This is when their robot was on their side Plum was written as a winner on the bracket.(2.2.2 Says a robot must move in an approximate straight line at a speed of 6in per second) The match should of been called there.

The officials at the event don't know the rules. They weren't going to let us forfeit to ourselves in the final. The referee, judges, and "executive committee " should be aware of the rules.

Really think anyone would follow the 6in straight line rule? You know what that does? It eliminates half of the competitors at the event. So many drive problems. New teams with untested designs do not drive well. If you loose a motor, and only have 1 side driving, yet your drum is still functional, should you not be able to keep fighting? That is still a fighting bot. And can TECHNICALLY move in a straight vector at the required speed. Sure ours was not following that, but honestly. Were we that much of a threat to keep fighting? We waited forever to fight and you get a lucky bounce and we end up on our side. Done for the day.... (it is btw, very hard to get alpha to do that.. so it was lucky. yes we need a bolt to prevent that, but the offset load in the bot vertically is substantial.) Im thankful the rookie listened to us, and flipped us over so we got to see more action.

And if you like those rules so much, why didn't you count yourself out when you had only 1 side driving? Yet you are so quick to throw that rule up when Still had a actual chance of losing.

And i agree with them not letting you forfeit yourself. Your own bots or not, this is a FUN competition. A lot of people came to watch bots fight, and a lot of teams wanted to fight, and didn't get a chance because they "were 5 min late" or had a random failure. You can take that for granted and just write off a match so you don't have to fight.

We ALWAYS fight each other no matter what. (pretty obvious) Forfeiting the final match is just.... wrong...

I still was not clear on why you did that? Give the crowd a show. Have some fun yourself. Give those in the pits who cannot fight because of you a show.
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