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 Building a Starter 15# Robot

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Don Doerfler
RC TTwins
Koolaid64
Cody
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MikeNCR
rjw
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rjw
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PostSubject: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 3:46 pm

Here's a thought...

Perhaps you could start a thread on building the ultimate econo wedge bot. Something that ALL schools could build, especially rookie builders.

A lot of bulders try to emulate / copy previous winners, but often fail in the execution, so this would really be not much different.

If everyone joins together to voice their opinions on what works and what doesn't, stuedents will have the opportunity to learn and build something competitive from the getgo.

Perhaps some group buys will emerge, for components and maybe even generic frame parts, etc.

We could all discuss the merits of 2 or 4 wheel drive, armor, etc. and come up with a forum designed generic yet robust design.

This could end up becoming a housebot for many teams..something to test their other desings against.

We all know that a good wedge, well built and driven can be very effective.

Students can taken proven concepts , materials, techiques, etc and use them in other designs.

My experience in all this has been that except for a few, most will make big rookie errors, especialy in thier first build. That is one way to learn, but tis couls move them forward more quickly.

Any thoughts?

I say start by thinking steel wedge....?
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rjw
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 4:02 pm

You should put up some pics or concepts..as a possible starting point.

Some possible design considerations could be....

1) gathering pics of what people think are good wedge bots...perhaps Appolyon and some other.

2) evaluating techiques for motor/gbox mounting and bracing

3) Building a minimum volume bot and why you might want to do this?

plenty more, I'm sure
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rjw
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 4:18 pm

Definitely could qualify as a fairly easy/econo build.

what about invertable vs non ?

I agree that being a wedge, we want something with more pushing power, so if that comes with less strain on electrics, then it's a good thing
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rjw
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 4:27 pm

I've always encouraged symetrical designs....but that would probably mean straight sides and maybe a floppy wedge, or some creativity. not overly excited about an inverted wedge with the wedge lying flat on the ground...or worse

Any thoughts on the NEW Scorpion XXL? While we blew up a LOT of the old XXL's, when they ran, bots seemed to be more pushy than others using the bb escs...I think that it was around 20 amps per side continuous as opposed to bb's 12?

550 motors can draw a lot of amps
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rjw
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 4:38 pm

For this project, let's keep it simple and go with the bb's...and let the smoke clear on the newer offering.

With the bigger gear ratios, wheel choice, etc. and some simple R & D with an amp probe, the 12 amp limit might be more than enough....

In that you have used this combo on many occasions, what have you found?

Can you light up the tires when stalled or have you had many esc overloads?
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MikeNCR
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 4:40 pm

Don't forget the holmes hobby esc's I've been using. The only ones I've lost so far were due to direct contact with steel shadows shell at Moto.
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rjw
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 4:44 pm

MikeNCR wrote:
Don't forget the holmes hobby esc's I've been using. The only ones I've lost so far were due to direct contact with steel shadows shell at Moto.

What was the rating and price on those?

thanks for the input... Smile
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4goodbuys2




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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 5:18 pm

You could use any brushed esc made for rc crawlers because they go directly from forward to reverse without delay, the only thing to watch for is the cell count some will only handle 2-3 cell lithium polymer.
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 5:26 pm

If you have the patience and the electronic know how you could reprogram a brushless esc into a brushed h bridge. http://www.robowars.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1581&start=0
Reliability could be a concern though.
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rjw
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 5:31 pm

Alex

You might want to change the thread title to include 15 pounder or botsiq mini or whatever
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Cody
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 6:00 pm

Hmm sounds like my plan for last year almost
Drill motors are also an alternative to BBs, while cheaper not quit as easy

I like the idea of UHMW and 4130 for a frame/armor
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rjw
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 6:00 pm

frame question:

to key or not to key frame members together?
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rjw
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 6:02 pm

Drivetrain options

1) as cheap as possible?
2) the standard bb stuff
3) extreme pushy i.e. Mike's powerful escs and maybe 775 gbox/motor combo
4) Other?

we might need to add some polls to this thread..... i.e. 2 or 4wd?
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Cody
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 6:04 pm

I like keyed together, it seems like it adds strength/rigidity

Batteries. I think 4 cell A123 18650 would be a great battery for this case.
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Cody
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 6:12 pm

I have 10 cells somewhere.There knockoffs but I never did get to check them out. Would you be interested in playing with them?
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Cody
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 6:16 pm

1100 mah
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rjw
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 6:27 pm

I vote for the 26650's

Keyed or not would depend on the actual frame design?
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 7:21 pm

So, are we looking at building a propel clone? If so, what improvements need to be made?

Or do you have something else in mind?
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 7:31 pm

If the wedge is not invertable, why change to straight sides?

What about top and bottom covers?

1/2" alu, not good enough?
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 7:35 pm

Share some pics of the inexpensive bracing?

How about wheel placement on propel? any problems getting highsided?
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 7:56 pm

Wheel question?

How do you find the grippiness of the blue (or other) bb wheels as compared to Colsons?

I think that Colsons would be more resistant to impact breakage, but traction ispossibly more important
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rjw
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 24, 2011 8:11 pm

How about traction in pushing contest, with identical bots but bb vs colsons?
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rjw
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 25, 2011 7:10 pm

You could also run 2 colsons and compare to 2 bb's....I realize that there probably is a weight advantage to the bb's, but was wondering if anyone has noticed anything traction wise??
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Koolaid64
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 25, 2011 7:28 pm

the colsons can be softened with wd40 or so i hear. haven't actually tried it
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RC TTwins

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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 25, 2011 7:29 pm

I really like this thread it will be a great help to starter schools Smile ill post some pics of my bot Zero Gravity Wink
http://www.flickr.com/photos/botsiqswpa/5649944026/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/botsiqswpa/5618505403/in/photostream

Ill get some more up tomorrow

I ran 6 A123 2650 for a total of 19.2 volts but over volted it hit 22.0 This did not damage the Holmes Hobbies TorqueMaster BR-XL Brushed esc, the problem we did have was we cooked our 550 motors by overvolting them so much. The speed we got out of them was crazy fast cause they were on 5:1 gear boxes and this ran one 1 7/8 wheel in the back and a pully to two 1 7/8 wheels in the front of the bot.

The detention of the bot was started as 12x12 but it was widened to 15 wide by 12 long which was the perfect fit for all the electronics. The bot was built out of only three typs of material, Polypropylene ( This is what the entire shell was built of) The couple of upsides to this stuff was it was all cut in our shop class with a router, table saw, miter saw. The entire bot was built in class and nothing needed sent out to be cut. Another material was allunium witch the flipper was made from ( the flipper was reused from the previous year ) and our top and bottom covers were, the thickness on the covers were 0.05 in. and the last material was the plat steel that was cut for our wedges.

The bot was designed to flip an opponet but we were running a little short of lifting power even with a 64:1 then a 2:1. But it ran very well for a wedge bot i was barley getting hit at all i did take some damage on the sides of the bot were there was no skirting but it chipped away and held its shape. I was very pleased with what i had built.

The skirting were two pieces of sheet steel that were 1/4 thick but each one weighed 1.5 lbs My bot this year was under weight even with the skirting it only weighed 13.5lbs

Im going to list the cost of the items to build zero gravity bellow

4 Pieces of 1.5 tall by .5 thick by 48 in $39.52
2 Sheets of 6061 T6 Aluminum $22.84
2 Banebots 5:1 Gearboxes $89.00
1 Banebot 64:1 Gearbox $64.50
3 550 motors $26.97
4 Power Grip XL Pullys $72.28
2 XL Belts $13.08
3 XL TorqueMaster Esc $269.97
16 A123 Cells $98.34
1 Hyperion Charger $120.00
12 1 7/8 banebots wheels $30.00
1 Switch $14.99
TOTAL FOR ZERO GRAVITY $861.49
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PostSubject: Re: Building a Starter 15# Robot   Building a Starter 15# Robot I_icon_minitime

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