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 Anyone building 120lbs?

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gtPR

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PostSubject: Anyone building 120lbs?   Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:03 pm

Just curious to know if anyone is building 120lb robots for BotsIQ this year. The trend is large outrunner brushless motors for weapons (understandably) but HK doesn't seem to be bringing back its 80-100. Just wondering what people were thinking about for this year.
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Cody
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:58 pm

They just released a new outgunned that's compareable to a 50cc gas motor
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gtPR

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:26 pm

yeah i saw that, but its "only" 5000 watts at 48v.
The old 80-100 were 7000.
plus its $180 for a smaller motor.
although it looks nice, I'm not completely convinced
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Jeff L
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:57 pm

Yeah, the 80-100 model has a longer stator, hence the massive power advantage. Though if someone really wanted an insane motor if that was unavailable, you could just build one.

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:38 am

We have a pair of seniors who want to do another crazy drum, powered by two large outrunners. They have been watching to see if the 80-100 reappears, because they are thinking that is the motor for their design.

El Cholo will also be reappearing at BotsIQ, with minor upgrades.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:58 pm

rdubard wrote:
We have a pair of seniors who want to do another crazy drum, powered by two large outrunners. They have been watching to see if the 80-100 reappears, because they are thinking that is the motor for their design.

El Cholo will also be reappearing at BotsIQ, with minor upgrades.

80-100 is discontinued until further notice i contacted hk about it and they will be having a new motor replace it sometime before december most likely at a higher cost... i would suggest their 50cc equal outrunner rewound to a higher kv if your looking for a crazy drum.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:06 am

As an alternative I mentioned before, it's likely going to be easiest for most teams looking for over-sized brushless outrunners to build them from scratch. It's not a difficult process in both the design and assembly stage, and I'm convinced any team on this site with access to at least a lathe could do it. In fact, I think you could even get superior performance without much additional work if you decided to install the hall effect sensors necessary for sensored motor operation (I've seen a few of these, and they have incredible start-up torque).

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:30 am

Quote :
Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:06 am
As an alternative I mentioned before, it's likely going to be easiest for most teams looking for over-sized brushless outrunners to build them from scratch.

Agreed, This was one option I was looking at also. In fact its a project I would like to do just for the fun of it. maybe on a smaller scale.

I believe the hardest part would be to find a stator large enough to fit the bill, as fabricating one just seems like to much work.
Another thing that has hold me back from pursuing that project is the price of magnets, I just haven't found a good place to purchase them at a price that make it cost competetive versus buying a chinese made motor.


Speaking of Chinese made motors, in my search for a 80-100 outrunner I plan on using for our 120lb robot "Rhino", I found what is basically the same motor oferred from HK. 80-100 180Kv and 7000Watts. just a different color. Problem is, is that the minimun order is 5, and i only need 2-3. The price for 5 is $150+shipping. The person selling me the motors says also that if more are bought the price would come down, although he never mentioned by how much. Maybe if we did a group buy it would be comparable to what HK sells them at. If anyone is interested let me know.

Of course we could all just wait to see if HK brings back their motors.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:45 pm

message bob lazar at unitednuclear.com he helped me alot and gave me a student discount for a massive chunk of neodymium he also has connections for all custom sizes so no brick rotor magnets he can get curved to whatever degree you want and whatever thickness you want. he also has some pretty good ufo stories if you get him to talk Wink
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Jeff L
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:43 am

Finding/cobbling together a large enough stator isn't as hard as it would seem. A somewhat expensive route is to get the largest variety from gobrushless.com and slap two end-to-end, which would make up for the reduced diameter by having a much greater length. A less expensive option is to find very inexpensive, big motors (like stepper motors or alternators) and harvest stators from those; I'm doing this right now to make a brushless hub motor for an electric scooter. The cheapest way is to find a dead 80-100 motor, pull out its stator, and use that (but that depends on you finding a dead 80-100 motor).

I have yet to find a way to just buy stators from a manufacturer, but if someone managed that I suspect they'd get a pretty good deal as well by buying a standard size.

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:22 pm

I've recently heard from someone that the HK 80-100 (in fact, the entire 80 series) is no longer in production. Time to find/build some new gigantic motors.

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:57 pm

"Someone?" What is it, some kinda secret? If you tell me, do you have to kill me? Very Happy

In other words, what's your source, so I have some idea whether to believe them or not?

Thanks for the info, btw.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:55 pm

rdubard wrote:
"Someone?" What is it, some kinda secret? If you tell me, do you have to kill me? Very Happy

In other words, what's your source, so I have some idea whether to believe them or not?

Thanks for the info, btw.

my someone was hobbyking customer service Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:21 am

Yeah. It's apparently why they're introducing the new RotoMax series, but there are no Turnigy RotoMax motors that can match the wattage of the two largest HK 80 series motors.

Still, if you were to just use the RotoMax motors, they're more than powerful enough to spin a weapon. Fluffy DeLarge's weapon motors were the most incredibly over-done system [possibly of all time] in that class. A single 50cc equivalent RotoMax will be more than enough to run a drum.

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:23 am

Evan Steeves wrote:

my someone was hobbyking customer service Smile

Legit. Why not say so in the first place?

As far as making our own motors is concerned, well, we have enough trouble getting the robots together without that additional challenge. Also, I see little creativity or originality involved in re-creating a massively commercially-available product like a motor. But I suppose if the goal is to produce one much larger than anything made, then there is some degree of originality in that.

What I wonder is, if motors this size are so rare, then why does Castle make at least four ESCs (Phoenix ICE HV 160, Phoenix ICE LITE HV 160, and Hydra HV 180 and 240) in that power range? Or is it about price, not size/availability?
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:23 am

This is all a bit frustrating, april is around the corner
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:44 am

rdubard wrote:
Evan Steeves wrote:

my someone was hobbyking customer service Smile

Legit. Why not say so in the first place?

As far as making our own motors is concerned, well, we have enough trouble getting the robots together without that additional challenge. Also, I see little creativity or originality involved in re-creating a massively commercially-available product like a motor. But I suppose if the goal is to produce one much larger than anything made, then there is some degree of originality in that.

What I wonder is, if motors this size are so rare, then why does Castle make at least four ESCs (Phoenix ICE HV 160, Phoenix ICE LITE HV 160, and Hydra HV 180 and 240) in that power range? Or is it about price, not size/availability?

Producing a DIY motor is pretty formulaic, actually. In fact, if you were to aim to make a motor that is an exact copy of an HK 80-100 as far as performance goes that would likely simplify the project. Then you have no question as to what your target specs are, which is half the trouble in my opinion. The whole process is very cut and dry.

The reason they have such large ESC's constantly available is that generally, someone making a model using them has
1) tons of cash, and
2) will likely burn more ESCs than they will motors. It doesn't hurt that ESCs are waaaaaay cheaper to make than motors.

Addendum: it doesn't hurt that it's also a bit more difficult to burn out an entire motor than an ESC either.

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Last edited by Jeff L on Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:16 am

castle makes those escs for custom neu motors that can pull 6kw and motors like the new 1/5th scale conversion motor for the hpi baja and sct truck.

you big robot guys should seriously consider this inrunner i have personally seen it push a 40 pound rc truck to 50+mph with instant torque i strongly believe it could outperform the hobbyking pineapple motors and give higher rpm for crazy weapons. jmo and sorry Mr. dubard i missed that i was up pretty late while posting Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:02 am

Evan Steeves wrote:
sorry Mr. dubard i missed that i was up pretty late while posting Rolling Eyes

LOL--I wasn't looking for an apology, I just thought it was funny how it was cryptically posted as "someone." Clearly my attempts at humor fell flat. I was actually curious about who it was, though, so I could figure out how reliable the info was, so thanks for following up!

Gotta look into those neu motors--not cheap, but if they run at 6kW and might be smaller than the 80-100's it could be promising. The biggest problem with inrunners for these weapons it the kV is usually too high to run belts.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:12 pm

I'm guessing a custom trans + the price of the motors... that could get very expensive.

Doesn't seem like the right choice for 120lbs IMO
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:46 pm

well as price is considered i disagree with how much people stock up on for spares that keep breaking, at robogames and bots iq teams would have up to 5 spare mags or pineapple motors with 2-4 spare high power speed controls thats roughly the same investment as two of these http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXAWSH&P=7

so far as reduction goes it dosent seem too complicated to add a preliminary pinion spur reduction to a final belt drive that way you could tune in the perfect amp load and torque and theres over 5 thousand different gears on the market today with about a third of them being made of hardened tool steel especially robinson racing gears.

in retrospect i could be blowing smoke out off my booty with how adding a gear reduction would be easy lol
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:43 pm

Didn't Jim's robot "Grasshopper" use one last year at BotsIQ?

If i remember correctly his got smashed from a hit in a fight, I remember seeing it and wincing
I'm not completely sure though...
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:52 am

gtPR wrote:
Didn't Jim's robot "Grasshopper" use one last year at BotsIQ?

If i remember correctly his got smashed from a hit in a fight, I remember seeing it and wincing
I'm not completely sure though...

jims used a castle 1800kv motor from a 1/10th monster truck the 1/5th scale system pushes another 4000 watts and rumored at 12 hp from various onroad tests using rolling roads and 1/5th scale forumla 1 cars.

and yes it got crushed by witch doctor and it was a 160 dollar loss for not even getting used it was quite a bummer but makes a cool paperweight for him now Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:40 pm

My robot Witch Doctor has won 1st place at BotsIQ overall two years in a row without ever breaking an outrunner or blowing an esc during an event.

Running a BLDC motor in a middleweight was my idea. To my knowledge the only other team running an outrunner is Ransom. Probably because they saw us destroy with one the year before.

Jeff, you could never build anything close to the power and quality of the 80-100 motor for anything close to $100.

Evan, sorry about that Castle motor.

I'm living in Boston now and not sure if I'll be able to make it to BotsIQ this year. Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone building 120lbs?   Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:14 pm

RemoteContact wrote:
My robot Witch Doctor has won 1st place at BotsIQ overall two years in a row without ever breaking an outrunner or blowing an esc during an event.

Running a BLDC motor in a middleweight was my idea. To my knowledge the only other team running an outrunner is Ransom. Probably because they saw us destroy with one the year before.

Jeff, you could never build anything close to the power and quality of the 80-100 motor for anything close to $100.

Evan, sorry about that Castle motor.

I'm living in Boston now and not sure if I'll be able to make it to BotsIQ this year. Sad

The idea isn't to beat their cost - it's simply that if you want a brushless motor with those specs in a reasonable timeframe, you will have to build one. Still, it seems very few people have noticed the RotoMax motors, while not quite as insane as the HK 80-100, are still pretty ShamWOW! overpowered and would fit the bill.

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