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 Need help with making my first bot

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KyoRinsuu



People Skills : 1729
Registration date : 2012-12-21

PostSubject: Need help with making my first bot   Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:37 pm

Hi guys im currently starting in college and as our second year project we have to build our first battle bot. Only hard part is they dont really explain anything to you regarding motors amps torque materials or pretty much anything. Heck ive been trying to ask my professor a good method to create a cone like armor for a full body spinner and he said and i qoute: "see those machines there in that room? used them until you get the results you are looking for."

Anyways i was thinking of making a FBS but we are in a tight budget so i was wondering first any techniques to create the shell? i wanted to make something with a 60 to 45 degree angle but not sure how to manufacture it. If not ill just have to go with a normal circle with no angle at all.

The motors i know Axi 2826 are really good for small 15lb FBS but is there any cheaper alternative? I plan on making this bot for the class then later on when i get the chance upgrade it.

I have no idea what type of wheels i would use on the motors to move the shell seriously this is my first time doing this.

Apart from these things im only wondering if anyone has any good suggestions for the motors that i could use to move the bot it self and any suggestions regarding the width and material i should make this out to maximize damage and defense.


for the weapon motors i was thinking of using maybe 2 or 4 of these:

Turnigy_Aerodrive_SK3_3542_800kv_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor.

Turnigy_Aerodrive_SK3_3542_1000kv_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor.

Turnigy_Aerodrive_SK3_3542_1185kv_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor.

then again im still new to all of this so i really need to see if anyone could help me out. Thanks in advance.
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Alex P. HASD Bots
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PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:27 am

My best advice I can give you is to keep the design as simple as possible. Some of the biggest issues with whether a bot is successful or not is when it comes to the initial start of the project. If you start off on the right foot life is much easier in the long run. In your case unless you are required to or your heart is set on creating a FBS, (please do not take any offense to this) then i would say to start out with a wedge bot first. A wedge bot will allow you to get your feet wet into bot building and let you get the basics down, before trying to conquer the difficult task of creating a full body spinner. Also, a wedge bot usually is about the cheapest bot that you can produce, and if built correctly they are very successful. If you are required to have a weapon then move up to a simple beater design that has two main rails that support it with bushings or bearings and a front and back cross member to support the two main rails. As for motors for your drive system, you want to have planetary gear reduction gear boxes connected to them which in turn take a brushed motor and give it the much needed torque. Check out robot market place for a good place to start you off on motors-(http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/motors_geared.html). I would recommend running the colson wheels because they are relatively cheap and are very strong. I would recommend running a lithium ion battery for weight reduction and all around better performance, however if you are on a budget you will do just fine with nickle metal hydride batteries somewhere around 3200 mAh would be a good starting place, also remember the higher the c rating the better off you are. As for metal try using aluminum- 60-61 is plenty good for starting out- for the main frame- aluminum is relatively cheap and easy to machine. For a weapon of any type use steel or titanium, these are much stronger metals and will whitstand the damage and abuse seen in this sport. For your weapon motor just remember that the higher the rpm the less torque it has, you want right around 1900-2300 rpm which is a good starter range, and inrunners are usually safer around wiring-(personal opinion). If you can run a 2.4 GHZ controller your life will be much easier in the long run- Spektrum is a leading brand as well as Futaba. For cheap motors and electronics check out hobby king- most of the stuff is of descent quality, however if you are unsure of something just ask on here. Hope this helps a little bit on your start, if you need any help what soever feel free to message me or ask on here.
Best of luck on your building,
Alex
P.S. Youtube is a great way to get some ideas on basic bot designs- type in SWPA Bots IQ and that will be a good starting place for you
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KyoRinsuu



People Skills : 1729
Registration date : 2012-12-21

PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:28 am

Hi first of all thanks for replying to my post. Im pretty much lost as to what to do with materials and electronics but you've given me a good place to start so yeah thanks. The only down side is my teacher picked the groups and the styles. He gave one type to each group on the section and i got the FBS type. My initial idea was a wedge or a drum but well yeah. Also since i didnt get to be on the same group as my high school friends my budget went down a bit, since the people that are now on my team dont wanna over spend or do anything that we can upgrade later.
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Alex P. HASD Bots
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PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:17 pm

if your definitely on a budget use hobby king, also as for getting material and what not you could go to a local machine shop or fab shop and see if they would be willing to sell or donate scrap metal that would at least set you on the right starting path for material- just a thought tho
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KyoRinsuu



People Skills : 1729
Registration date : 2012-12-21

PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:46 pm

Im still trying to see how to tackle this battle bot if you guys could at least tell me a good type of motors to use for the wheels and weapon or how to make a cone like shell. Im really sorry im just new to all of this and im not sure budget wise I guess i can adapt but i know nothing of the calculations needed to know what is a good motor or not so yeah.

Since ill be on a budget i was thinking of making the outside shell of aluminum 7075 and the insides of 6061 since i already have a few plates around my house of them. Not sure what you guys think about that maybe have some suggestions like hardening the material or a different type of material for extra strength?
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AlexH

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Registration date : 2010-10-15
Age : 22
Location : south eastern pa

PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:24 pm

a relatively cheap good drivetrain can be made from drill motors

you want drills that spin at 550rpm and have a 3/8" chuck. you don't want a two speed gearbox.

ollies sells drills for $20 that work for this hack (not available online)

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/64027_583883574971170_1404793821_n.jpg

here's a guide i wrote on how to hack them for robot use.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Hacking-Drills-CheapPowerful-GearboxMotors-for-/


combine that with with two botbitz 85a esc's

http://www.botbitz.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=59

make hubs like these
http://kitbots.com/images/HF_Hub_and_washer_big.jpg

and if you don't have access to a lathe

http://kitbots.com/product.sc;jsessionid=211598F2700A470055F778E1E540D2DE.qscstrfrnt05?productId=5&categoryId=1

add wheels

http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/0W-BPDWC04.html

drivetrain for ~$200

i also recommend this Tx/Rx if you don't already have one

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__28494__OrangeRx_T_SIX_2_4GHz_DSM2_6CH_Programmable_Transmitter_w_10_Model_Memory_Mode_2_.html

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11965__OrangeRx_R610_Spektrum_DSM2_6Ch_2_4Ghz_Receiver_w_Sat_Port_.html
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KyoRinsuu



People Skills : 1729
Registration date : 2012-12-21

PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:04 pm

Wow thanks =P that a good place to start. I was wondering do you have any idea for a good way to fabricate the shell? or maybe a good motor for the shell? im not sure i understand which motors are better or worst.
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AlexH

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People Skills : 2524
Registration date : 2010-10-15
Age : 22
Location : south eastern pa

PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:20 am

i'd buy a big piece of steel pipe and use it as the shell.

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=955&step=4&showunits=inches&id=58&top_cat=0

you might need to do more searching to find larger pipe but you should be able to cram it into something that small.


or you could use a ring roller to bend barstock into a ring

http://www.amazon.com/Sheet-Metal-Pedestal-Band-Roller/dp/B000OGXT8K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357103558&sr=8-1&keywords=Sheet+Metal+Pedestal+Band+%2F+Ring+Roller

i've never built a large spinner so i'm probably not the right person to ask about what motors to use for a spinner weapon. intuition tells me a 70-80mm brushless seems about the right size.
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KyoRinsuu



People Skills : 1729
Registration date : 2012-12-21

PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:01 am

Thanks a lot ill see how much this will cost to ship to me and try to start on this bot lol =P.
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KyoRinsuu



People Skills : 1729
Registration date : 2012-12-21

PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:22 am

So after a long talk with my professor i got permission to make a drum style instead of a FBS since we only have 1 month left to build it. So far i have all the metals im thinking of making inside of aluminum 6061 and outside walls of 2024 or 7075 aluminum since we have some around the house. I was wondering do you guys have any ideas of what motors i could or should use for the weapons? I was thinking between:
Turnigy Aerodrive SK3 - 3542-1185kv Brushless Outrunner Motor
Turnigy T600 Brushless Outrunner for 600 Heli (880kv)
axi gold 2826
axi gold 2820 (not sure which amount of turns)

Im not really sure what im looking for when it comes to motors or battery.

I was thinking of using:
ZIPPY Compact 3700mAh 4S 35C Lipo Pack

Once again would be great if you could give me some pointers on how to interpret the specs of this and motors to tell what to look for =P

Anyways apart from this my robot is currently going to be 2 inch tall with 3 inch tall wheels im only having problems in putting Colson wheels on banebot tires so i think that if i dont find a way to do it ill have to go with banebot wheels.

Any idea how to make my fix my shaft so it wont move or should i use bearings to make the shaft spin with the entire drum?

Not sure how to make a good belt drive system to use 4 wheels so i think i might have to go with just 2 wheels and skids on the front but if anyone has any ideas to help me out it would be great.

Oh and before i forget any ideas on how to unite the walls? i was thinking of going with angle aluminum pieces since its 1/4 inch thick i cant really use screws.

Once again guys thanks for all your help so far and sorry for grammar im using my phone so its hard to do this.
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AlexH

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Registration date : 2010-10-15
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Location : south eastern pa

PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:45 pm

for ideas/advice about building stuff, i recommend reading charles guan's excellent instructable, how to build your everything really really fast.

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Build-your-Everything-Really-Really-Fast/


i know people use 540 or 550 size brushless inrunners for their drums.

i'd also do a dead axle for the drum, but that's only because i like dead axles so you can avoid shaft collars.
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KyoRinsuu



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Registration date : 2012-12-21

PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:56 pm

What type of motors are those? Also I see nothing of motor or battery calculations on the guide still great guide.
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Luke

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People Skills : 2402
Registration date : 2011-04-16
Location : Plum

PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:36 pm

KyoRinsuu wrote:
What type of motors are those? Also I see nothing of motor or battery calculations on the guide still great guide.

I'd suggest ,using a feiago 540XL (used very successfully by Plum Robotics ) for weapon motor or Tacon 3674-540XL-9T Brushless Motor 1900KV if you want something cheaper (own personally and quality seems alright, although have not combat tested! yet.). Also for ESC on it I'd suggest either Jeti Advance 77 Pro Opto Brushless ESC (Used by Plum with 540XL for many years), or if you are on a budget Dynam 80a esc (Used successfully to run Feiago 540XL for 2.5 minutes, although much larger than Jeti).

EDIT: Also ESC wise any ESC rated for 80 amps or higher should work for Feiago 540xl, or another 540XL motor, I just mentioned the ones I have used before.


Last edited by Luke on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Luke

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PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:39 pm

KyoRinsuu wrote:
What type of motors are those? Also I see nothing of motor or battery calculations on the guide still great guide.
Oh and battery wise Plum has used 2300 mAh A123 Cell ANR26650 to run a robot with two RS550s, and Feiago 540XL, although if competition allows it lipo battery of similar or greater capacity would work well as well.
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KyoRinsuu



People Skills : 1729
Registration date : 2012-12-21

PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:30 pm

Awesome luke but sadly my budget wont allow me to get a Jeti and i cant seem to find anyone selling Feigao motor. Plus i really dont know what you mean about the battery is there any specs i should look out for on lipos? thanks for all your help hope im not bothering.
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Luke

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PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:40 pm

KyoRinsuu wrote:
Awesome luke but sadly my budget wont allow me to get a Jeti and i cant seem to find anyone selling Feigao motor. Plus i really dont know what you mean about the battery is there any specs i should look out for on lipos? thanks for all your help hope im not bothering.
I'll link you to specs of battery along with to cheaper ESC/Motor combo.

Cheap ESC: http://www.hobbypartz.com/60p-dye-1016-80a-esc.html
Cheap Motor http://www.hobbypartz.com/96m215-3674-1900kv-9t.html

For battery here are greatly similar cells to what I have used before, although if your competition allows lipo one around 2500-2700 mAh with 30C discharge, would work.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__16575__A123_3_3VB_Lithium_Ion_2300mAh_Single_Cell_Battery.html
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KyoRinsuu



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Registration date : 2012-12-21

PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:43 pm

Do you think i can use the something like this ZIPPY Compact 3700mAh 4S 35C Lipo Pack
with that ESC and Motor? just asking since i dont really understand very well the battery specs.
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KyoRinsuu



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Registration date : 2012-12-21

PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:45 pm

If i were to use batteries like the ones you are showing me how would i connect them and protect them from shortage? some type of heat shrink tubing?
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Luke

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PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:46 pm

KyoRinsuu wrote:
If i were to use batteries like the ones you are showing me how would i connect them and protect them from shortage? some type of heat shrink tubing?
With the cells , we usually solder them in 2 cell packs , solder on leads, balancing lead, and then wrap in electrical tape (Can be done with heat shrink tubing, but E-tape is easier).

Here is a video guide on it
http://udanis.com/how-to-make-a-2-cell-a123-battery-pack/

Edit:
Also zippy battery should work fine, although capacity may be a tad higher than needed (Not that over building is bad if you have weight/space)
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KyoRinsuu



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PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:09 pm

Lol yeah well I have one lying around so that would save the budget a bit plus its ok if it has more capacity I guess I can keep my weapon on at all times then lol. I guess after these many question I only have one left im asked to have a power switch but im not sure if a 3A 120V switch will survive this circuit one again a bit lost since we are asked to do this without any theorical explanations. if you could help me solve my doubts I would be very gratefull
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Luke

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PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:42 pm

KyoRinsuu wrote:
Lol yeah well I have one lying around so that would save the budget a bit plus its ok if it has more capacity I guess I can keep my weapon on at all times then lol. I guess after these many question I only have one left im asked to have a power switch but im not sure if a 3A 120V switch will survive this circuit one again a bit lost since we are asked to do this without any theorical explanations. if you could help me solve my doubts I would be very gratefull

If the switch allows only 3 amps max, I doubt it will. For a very simple switch (if you are allowed to use it) just use a removable link switch. (removable link is simply a deans or Xt60 connector with a loop of wire, that then plugs into another connector to complete circuit.
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KyoRinsuu



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PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:59 pm

Well i just used the lipo battery i had here and its officially useless. I have to buy a new one do you think this one will work out well for those components plus 2 banebots for drive?

GENS ACE 2700mAh 35C 14.8v Lipo Battery

Oh and i just noticed my college isnt providing us with any chargers so i might have to buy one.
I was thinking maybe buy something like this.

Thunder AC680 Professional Dual-Power LiPo Balance
or
Thunder AC6 Smart LiPo Balance Charger/Discharger

once again not sure if you can explain the differences and what im looking for i would be grateful plus i guess this way i can buy everything in one shipment and avoid wasting so much on shipping.

P.S. Im not sure of how much time 2700 will allow me to do thats why i wanted to use 3000 and up. But if you can jump in and tell me that 2700 is enough i will be grateful =P
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Luke

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PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:42 am

KyoRinsuu wrote:
Well i just used the lipo battery i had here and its officially useless. I have to buy a new one do you think this one will work out well for those components plus 2 banebots for drive?

GENS ACE 2700mAh 35C 14.8v Lipo Battery

Oh and i just noticed my college isnt providing us with any chargers so i might have to buy one.
I was thinking maybe buy something like this.

Thunder AC680 Professional Dual-Power LiPo Balance
or
Thunder AC6 Smart LiPo Balance Charger/Discharger

once again not sure if you can explain the differences and what im looking for i would be grateful plus i guess this way i can buy everything in one shipment and avoid wasting so much on shipping.

P.S. Im not sure of how much time 2700 will allow me to do thats why i wanted to use 3000 and up. But if you can jump in and tell me that 2700 is enough i will be grateful =P

If your drive is similar to ones I've dealt with it should work, also Thunder AC6 Smart LiPo Balance Charger/Discharger I own, and it is decent for charging batteries, also you may want to get 2-3 batteries so that you do not need to wait for battery to charge.
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rdubard
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PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:23 pm

Just wrote a long explanation of batteries, to realize that the thread had moved a LONG way from where I last left it.

If you are still interested in Volts, Capacity, and Discharge ratings, I can post it. But I'm guessing you've got it straight now.
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KyoRinsuu



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Registration date : 2012-12-21

PostSubject: Re: Need help with making my first bot   Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:12 pm

Oh yeah i read it, and now that i came back to the post i was surprise to see you removed it. So please leave it I would love to use it as reference for future projects.

Also do any of you know any good drive motors to use with colson wheels? my banebot motors have a 1/2 inch shaft and its to big for the hole in the 3 inch colson wheels.
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