| | Designing my 4wd belt drive 3lb beetle weight | |
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4goodbuys2
People Skills: 547 Registration date: 2010-12-27
 | Subject: Designing my 4wd belt drive 3lb beetle weight Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:19 am | |
| Hi I'm building a beetle weight with 4 wheel drive powered by 2 motors with belts and pulleys and slave shafts. It's going to be a wedge so I need pushing power also I'm trying to design a fly wheel for the top or maybe a lifting arm, I don't have any questions about that part.
ESC I have been jumping from brushed to brushless with the design over and over. I found options either way for brushed or brushless. brushless esc http://www.hobbypartz.com/ezrun-25a-l-brushless-esc-for-rc-car.html I can turn off the brake brushed esc most likely the sabertooth 12, unless there is something better Or for the cheap way out on the brushed esc, 4 of these hobby king esc's I can turn the brakes off http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6468
Motor I need a motor with a (3mm) shaft either brushed or brushless with alot of pushing power and speed. for brushess a motor like this http://www.hobbypartz.com/96m05-car-2040-3600.html I'm not really sure which brushed motor I would use , it's hard to find one with a 3mm shaft. Maybe you know of a better motor with a 3mm shaft?
I'm looking for an expert opinion on this someone with more experience on this subject Thanks
Also I'm trying to choose the pully size for my drive here's the link to the pulleys http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/timing_pulleys_fingertech.html I'm thinking a 15 tooth on the motor and a 42 tooth on the slave shafts
List Of Part's I Already Have 6x BaneBots Wheel, 1-7/8" x 0.4", 1/2" Hex Mount, 30A, Black/Green 4x Hub, Hex, Series 40, Set Screw, 3mm Bore, 1 Wide 2x Hub, Hex, Series 40, Set Screw, 3mm Bore, 2 Wide 4x 16mm Slave Shaft Kit 1.5 inch long 3mm shaft half inch aluminum angle (to go around the polycarbonate) sheet of polycarbonate (for the chassis) big roll of aluminum flashing (for armor, also might add a sheet under the polycarbonate) Spektrum DX7 remote |
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Brandon Roberts

People Skills: 848 Registration date: 2010-04-26 Age: 18 Location: Clairton, Pa
 | Subject: Re: Designing my 4wd belt drive 3lb beetle weight Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:34 pm | |
| As for your electronics, i cannot say for sure because i have no experience in the 3lb division's electronics. However there are plenty of people here that have won titles with 3lb and tons of other threads to check to see what the competition is thinking about. as for the pulleys, while robot marketplace is a great start, there are websites that offer a huge variety of timing pulleys and belts to fit any situation, my team and and a lot others use SPD/SI, which specializes in plastic and metal timing pulleys. the site is a little confusing so if u have any questions feel free to ask. (P.S make sure its in stock, if not call to see when it will be, sometimes the delay is crazy) also mcmastercar has a decent selection of timing pulleys and almost guarantees stock www.sdp-si.com/ www.mcmaster.com/ for more places to shop around, check the "Resources Thread of Glory" posted on here by Jeff, its extremely helpful http://battlebots.forumotion.com/t467-the-resources-thread-of-glory?highlight=glory |
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4goodbuys2
People Skills: 547 Registration date: 2010-12-27
 | Subject: Re: Designing my 4wd belt drive 3lb beetle weight Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:46 pm | |
| Thanks both of those websites went into my bookmarks. They have a huge selection compared to robot marketplace.
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Alex Udanis Admin

People Skills: 2637 Registration date: 2009-03-29
 | Subject: Re: Designing my 4wd belt drive 3lb beetle weight Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:52 pm | |
| | 4goodbuys2 wrote: | Thanks both of those websites went into my bookmarks. They have a huge selection compared to robot marketplace.
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From my experiences Mcmaster has a lot better customer service than Robotmarketplace. _________________ AlexUdanis.com
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Cody 2000+ club


People Skills: 3707 Registration date: 2009-03-16
 | Subject: Re: Designing my 4wd belt drive 3lb beetle weight Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:59 pm | |
| Maybe I read it wrong but why do you need 4 ESC for 2 motors? I cant say there bad Ive heard people have more troubles with Dimension Engineering ESc then anyothers Maybe look into the banebots 3-9 or i beleive people have used fingertech tiny esc's in beetles
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Brandon Roberts

People Skills: 848 Registration date: 2010-04-26 Age: 18 Location: Clairton, Pa
 | Subject: Re: Designing my 4wd belt drive 3lb beetle weight Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:23 pm | |
| i agree with Cody, banebot esc's are arguably the best all around. their simple, sturdy, and pretty resistant to frying even if your robot catches on fire =p
also they have they have their own BEC for if you go with your brush-less motor design |
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4goodbuys2
People Skills: 547 Registration date: 2010-12-27
 | Subject: Re: Designing my 4wd belt drive 3lb beetle weight Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:22 am | |
| The reason that I would use 4 esc's with the hobbyking 30 amp's , because they are single channel and it would require 2 for each side 1 for reverse 1 for forward movement totaling 4.
The sabertooth 12 seems to be a good choice because I can run it on one stick on my dx7. It has a 5v bec, lipo cutoff. What does this mean though Acceleration Ramping - Selectible by DIP switches. Replaces the flip function. I know what the flip function is but I'm not sure what acceleration ramping is?
Have you heard of anyone using 2 of these brushless esc's for their drive? http://www.hobbypartz.com/ezrun-25a-l-brushless-esc-for-rc-car.html You can turn off the brake so you can go from forward to reverse instantly. I just wonder if it could handle the stall amperage of this motor http://www.hobbypartz.com/96m05-car-2040-3600.html Or would it even have much pushing power at low rpms? |
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Alex Udanis Admin

People Skills: 2637 Registration date: 2009-03-29
 | Subject: Re: Designing my 4wd belt drive 3lb beetle weight Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:17 am | |
| | 4goodbuys2 wrote: | The reason that I would use 4 esc's with the hobbyking 30 amp's , because they are single channel and it would require 2 for each side 1 for reverse 1 for forward movement totaling 4.
The sabertooth 12 seems to be a good choice because I can run it on one stick on my dx7. It has a 5v bec, lipo cutoff. What does this mean though Acceleration Ramping - Selectible by DIP switches. Replaces the flip function. I know what the flip function is but I'm not sure what acceleration ramping is?
Have you heard of anyone using 2 of these brushless esc's for their drive? http://www.hobbypartz.com/ezrun-25a-l-brushless-esc-for-rc-car.html You can turn off the brake so you can go from forward to reverse instantly. I just wonder if it could handle the stall amperage of this motor http://www.hobbypartz.com/96m05-car-2040-3600.html Or would it even have much pushing power at low rpms? |
You dont want to use any of the DE esc's, they are overcomplicated crap.
_________________ AlexUdanis.com
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4goodbuys2
People Skills: 547 Registration date: 2010-12-27
 | Subject: Re: Designing my 4wd belt drive 3lb beetle weight Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:52 am | |
| The only reason I was going to use the sabertooth 12 was to have it all on 1 control stick on my dx7 (easier to control that way imo).
The banebots 12 would require me me to buy 2 and that would be around $120, I feel like I could go brushless in my 3lber for that price.
What esc do you think I should go with?
And what's your opinion on the brushless setup I'm thinking of using? ESC http://www.hobbypartz.com/ezrun-25a-l-brushless-esc-for-rc-car.html motor http://www.hobbypartz.com/96m05-car-2040-3600.html I just wonder If their would be a way to program some mixing on my dx7 so I could control it on one stick instead of 2?
I'm really considering going brushless with my build.
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Cody 2000+ club


People Skills: 3707 Registration date: 2009-03-16
 | Subject: Re: Designing my 4wd belt drive 3lb beetle weight Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:40 pm | |
| the brushless esc idea doesnt seem like the best idea to me, but i dont know all that much
You can set the banebots or other esc to one stick |
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jtm94 great contributor


People Skills: 1028 Registration date: 2010-04-23 Age: 18 Location: Clairton, PA
 | Subject: Re: Designing my 4wd belt drive 3lb beetle weight Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:01 am | |
| | Quote: | | I just wonder If their would be a way to program some mixing on my dx7 so I could control it on one stick instead of 2? |
I would almost guarantee that this is possible. We do that with the dx6i.
I have no clue as to how the brushless idea would work, but if you really want to do it then go ahead and try. Those esc's should also have a reverse to them because they're for an r/c car so you shouldn't need 4 of them, just 2 like you said so that should work.
I'm also not too sure about the compatibility of that motor and the esc but that's just because I don't know much. My understanding of brushless motors is that they have max torque at 0 rpm's and the faster they go the less torque they have. |
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Cody 2000+ club


People Skills: 3707 Registration date: 2009-03-16
 | Subject: Re: Designing my 4wd belt drive 3lb beetle weight Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:44 pm | |
| i thought brushless didnt have any torque at 0 rpm (which was the problem with derry's brushless flipper?) |
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4goodbuys2
People Skills: 547 Registration date: 2010-12-27
 | Subject: Re: Designing my 4wd belt drive 3lb beetle weight Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:28 am | |
| I came to the decision from the parts I already have that I will build an antweight and I will save the brushless beetle build for a later build. A while back I bought 5 50-1 6v copal metal gear motors and a b gearmotor used really cheap.
So I will use 2 motors copal 50-1 2 wheels banebots 1 7/8 and a brushless spinning weapon (powered by a hobbyking outrunner) and most likely a sabertooth 5
I'm thinking about a vertical spinning disc built into a wedge scoop, What size brushless and how many amps would you use for a antweight weapon , and are outrunners or inrunners better for that application?
I'm going to go buy a oxygen and acetylene cutting torch and welder today so that may help in my build a little bit.
Last edited by 4goodbuys2 on Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Alex Udanis Admin

People Skills: 2637 Registration date: 2009-03-29
 | Subject: Re: Designing my 4wd belt drive 3lb beetle weight Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:46 pm | |
| | 4goodbuys2 wrote: | I came to the decision from the parts I already have that I will build an antweight and I will save the brushless beetle build for later build. A while back I bought 5 50-1 6v copal metal gear motors and a b gearmotor used really cheap.
So I will use 2 motors copal 50-1 2 wheels banebots 1 7/8 and a brushless spinning weapon (powered by a hobbyking outrunner) and most likely a sabertooth 5
I'm thinking about a vertical spinning disc built into a wedge scoop, What size brushless and how many amps would you use for a antweight weapon , and are outrunners or inrunners better for that application?
I'm going to go buy a oxygen and acetylene cutting torch and welder today so that may help in my build a little bit.
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I didn't see one recommendation on the sabertooth and you still want to use one? Are you crazy? There are far better options _________________ AlexUdanis.com
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rdubard mega contributor

People Skills: 1569 Registration date: 2009-06-10 Age: 47 Location: Ransom Everglades, Miami, FL
 | Subject: Re: Designing my 4wd belt drive 3lb beetle weight Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:01 pm | |
| | 4goodbuys2 wrote: | The reason that I would use 4 esc's because they are single channel and it would require 2 for each side 1 for reverse 1 for forward movement totaling 4.
The sabertooth 12 seems to be a good choice because I can run it on one stick on my dx7.
Have you heard of anyone using 2 of these brushless esc's for their drive? . . . Or would it even have much pushing power at low rpms? |
I have never heard of anyone using two separate ESCs, one for forward and one for reverse. Have you actually done this, and does it work?
The Spektrum joystick-style transmitters (not the pistolgrip) have an 'elevon' or "V-tail" mixing option, that automatically makes single-stick control using the elevator and aileron channels, regardless of the ESCs you choose. It's not too difficult to do, I suggest you read your manual. However, even if you choose not to do your mixing in the transmitter, an elevon mixer will do it for you inside the bot. I would NOT choose my ESC based on the mixing option, and probably not on the BEC options either (If all else is equal, then they are nice options to consider, but power, reliability and size are the key specs)
To my knowledge, the starting torque on a brushless is poor--if you try to start it up and there is too much load it kinda makes a buzzing/grinding noise, heats up, and doesn't move. This is called cogging. HOWEVER, I have never successfully worked a brushless drive (weapons, absolutely, but drive, no) --you really should PM rjw if you are considering this because he has made it work quite well, and he is generous with his support.
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| | Designing my 4wd belt drive 3lb beetle weight | |
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